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These pages are dedicated
to a long series of letters. They are designed to speak
to men who have violated and dishonoured their wives
for so long that she has filed for divorce, gotten a
boyfriend, has separated, or lives with him but hates
his guts, realizes he has been a con-artist in the marriage
and therefore, does not believe a word he says.
Some of the men you will read about here have won their
wives hearts back. Others did not make the inner changes
necessary. The object
MUST be to become Christlike and to make up to your
wife and children for the pain that you have caused
them. If your goal is only to restore your family, you
will not change internally. You will win your wife back
but then you will revert within six months back to your
have to kill the selfishness. The only way you kill that selfishness, pride and ego is to maintain the attitude that you are making up
to your wife and kids for the wounding you have caused. You also need to be motivated by the responsibility
to offer security and support to your children, even
if you never get your wife back. This is all about you.
Do YOU want to become Christlike? Do you want to grow
and mature? Or do you want to stay the same old selfish,
carnal man that you were when you forced your wife's
heart to turn away from you?
This first series of letters are a series of letters
back and forth between us, “Jamie” and “Jan”.
All names and locations have been changed. You will
remember “Jamie” and “Jan” from
chapter 20 of “Livin’ It and Lovin’
It!” entitled, “Can I Ever Get Her Back?”
These letters are not included in that chapter, so to
get the drift of our full counsel, you will need to
read chapter 20.
you read through this page, be aware that sometimes
parts might be out of order. You will "get the
drift" though! Keep reading!
About the middle of June this
year, in a desperate search to stop a divorce, that
I myself initiated, and my wife counter filed on, I
ran across your site.
At the time, there was absolutely no hope that I could
see of ever reconciling with my wife and 4 children,
and losing a 25 year relationship. I had tried everything:
praying, counselling and just about everything I could
I bought your book, and began
a intense correspondence with you and your wife.
You offered hope and encouragement,,and death,,,death
to self. All of the other methods I had looked at were,
now, in retrospect, just ways of manipulating the situation.
Taking my hands off of things
was the most difficult thing I'd ever had to do.
In March of this year, my wife
wouldn't even talk to me about anything.
She was so hurt, and since I've been laying down my
life for my wife, as you say I need to do, my wife,
(my ex-wife,) is responding slowly, ever so slowly to
a change that she has
expressed that she does indeed see happening in me.
Yesterday, on September 5, she
was working at home, and still having trouble with anxiety
attacks over the divorce. She had a very vivid dream,
and became very distraught,
I just so happened to call her to see how she was doing.
I ended up leaving work to be with her. This was an
answer to the prayer that she'd been praying, "God,
him to me."
We had time to talk about some
things after she was able to regain her composure somewhat.
She said that she just couldn't go back to what she
called "insanity", and I'd have to agree with
her that it was. (Referring to how I treated her for
I told her that I wanted to show
her that I could be the man of her dreams and hoped
that she would allow me to show her that. (I told her
this for about the 100th time)
In a statement right out of the
blue, she said,,"I don't even want to start thinking
about getting back together,,until after Christmas."
It was a statement, that I didn't
prompt at all,,nor did I push
for,,but, had been hoping and praying for.
It's still going to take time,
I know, but, the hope of restoration, is more tangible
now, than it has ever been.
Thank you so very much,
What Jamie did not mention in his letter, is how much
pain he has gone through. For a month or two, he could
hardly do, or say anything right! We would tell him
every time that he said or did something that was crossing
boundaries and violating Jan's space. Jamie could have
lost heart. He could have given up. We told Jamie that
he had to dedicate the rest of his life to making up
to Jan for the hurt he had brought to her and the kids...
even if she never responded. His motivation had to be
correct: to mature into Christlikeness - without any
promises, guarantees or assurances from Jan. Hey Jamie,
the great news is that you still have some more growing
to do. We get to laugh some more at your expense!
You forgot to mention that I have been telling you that
you and Jan would be having serious discussions about
re-marriage by Christmas... give or take a few weeks.
I had been saying this since about July 1. We did not
prompt Jan either, about this. You also forgot to mention
that you have been blindly following our every instruction
- no matter how much it brought death to your ego and
pride. Following the instructions has been causing you
to truly die to self - you are not there yet - but you
are so very close to receiving the "safety"
seal of approval from us. Each time that you do the
opposite of what every fiber in your being wants to
do, you are forcing your brain to create the new synapses.
This will only be excruciatingly hard for a few more
months.. and then it will begin to progressively get
You are actually changing. You are maturing into adulthood.
When your growth is complete, and you are re-married,
and you are treating Jan like a queen within the marriage
for a few years, and you are NOT treating other women
like queens - then you and Jan are going to be able
to help so many others.
Hi Joel and Kathy
I hope this makes it to you,
it's been a while since you and I have
I guess I really just want to try to clear things up
a little bit, if
that's at all possible
I have found out things about myself throughout this
whole thing, that
I was totally oblivious to, and never even imagined
things like selfishness, and manipulation and a hidden
desire to want
to control, and the frustration that it all brings about,
that was brought on by no one other than,,,,ME
It was never Jan,,,although,,
I thought it was,,all of the things
that you and I have talked about over the years,,from
the good to the
bad,,I've found out were a direct result of my input,,,
too many times, I felt that I was totally right in my
view of things,
and didn't give Jan's feelings about things more than
a passing (if
Times that I complained that
Jan's views were harsh, irrational, and
or extreme,,were all, as I now know, just a reaction
to the things
that I had either put upon her, or was putting her through.
If I thought that her relationship
with God, was fanatical,,well,,it's
all because, she was totally seeking God, in an effort
to find refuge
from the pain, that I knowingly and unknowingly was
her and had inflicted on her.
If I thought that she disrespected
me, (which I did),,it was only a
direct result of,,,you guessed it,,,Me again
Issues with the children,,I thought that my way was
I thought that being the "head
of the wife",somehow meant taking on
all of the responsibility for everything, and demanding,
be a certain way, and that my way was somehow the right
she should be willing to accept it as a God thing.
I made issues of things that
shouldn't have been issues at all, and
didn't see the real issues as they were.
I guess all I'm trying to say
is that I was the issue,,
If I had actually understood and obeyed the commandment
5, as I do now,,Jan's spirit would have flourished,,,instead
If I would have listened more
to her heart, and given more
to the way she felt about things,, the things I thought,,and
emphasize the word,,,thought,,,would never have happened
Joel, this is really all my fault,,100%,, I cannot blame
Jan at all
Joel, if Jan should ever choose
to ask you anything about me,that
you are aware of,,please,,tell her,,
too many times over the years,
I've either limited Jan's
choices,,and other times,,totally given her no choice,,,
I gave her no choice in this matter either,
I didn't "give myself up
for her" as husbands are commanded to, and I
set no good example for my children or other people
in the church
I've been hypocritical, controlling, domineering, adulterous
all of the things I never wanted
to be,,but,,ended up being anyway
I've hurt Jan, and my children and other people around
want to apologize to the both of you for that.
If I've made either of you draw
a negative opinion of Jan, in any
way,, I'm sorry,
the cause and the blame for this
rests squarely on me,
and anything that Jan ever said or did as a result of
are totally my fault
please pray for me
this morning about 5 a.m. I awoke, and called Jan's
cell phone to
leave her a message and "own" the issues that
she says are troubling
her at this time,,
I inadvertently woke her up,
and apologized for all of that,,,
but, I told her that I initiated
all of the affairs, simply by being
me, and something was wrong with me at the most basic
level, that I
desperately wanted to change
I explained the reasoning for
letting Sandra listen to the message,
and told her that I thought since I was honest with
her, it wouldn't
be a big deal, I told her that I know now that it was
stupid, and I
never wanted to do "stupid" things, but, always
The Tommy Tenney thing, I explained
to her that it was a control thing
because I didn't like it, and since I had the backing
of clergy, that
my position was correct, and I didn't want her to do
it,,and tried to
stop her from doing it,,
I believe I've given her plenty
of reason to just make the decision to
call it quits today,,and not have anything to do with
I will go and clean the chimney this afternoon as I
told her I would
but somewhere in my heart this morning, I know it's
Do you really want me to answer this?
What are you trying to grow out of?
1. Compulsive actions, controlled by your emotions..
such as calling Jan at 5 am to clear yourself. Translate
this into a restored marriage: Jamie gets a compulsion
to go and talk to the woman at the convenience store..
he needs to get some reassurance about himself as a
man because he is not feeling respected by Jan... and
2. Poor me: Somewhere in my heart, I know it is over...
Translate this into a restored marriage: Jan is not
reassuring me of her love enough. She is making me feel
bad about myself. I need to go to Wal-Mart so I can
see if other women will still give me "kudo's"
3. Tommy Tenney: Even though I had clergy backing me..
you are trying so hard to just accept the fact that
you were afraid because you were not in control of Jan
concerning where she was going and what she was doing.....
that little bit of "but it was not all my fault"
still hangs on by a thread. Translate this into marriage.
"I am really getting tired of it around here. Jan
won't get off my case. Sure, I am not perfect, but she
is making it impossible for me to love her."
Because I am so confident that you will be back with
Jan and the kids, after you grow up out of all of this
garbage, I could have just said, "GROW UP"..
but, I thought I would take a minute and help you isolate
Did I mention the need to grow up? You have 90 days
to mature.. if you are going to see the Christmas prediction
come to pass... Controlling your emotions, not letting
your actions be dictated by your emotions, quitting
smoking, all these are part and parcel of the process.
We tell men all the time: "The Problem is NOT
getting your wife to turn her heart toward you... the
problem is getting you to truly change."
Most guys want to "prove to their wives that they
have changed" instead of actually changing! There
is a HUGE difference. We
worked with a man named Ian. He had a world of legal
stuff hanging over his wife's head. We told him that
he must drop the legal processes immediately if he was
going to win her heart back. He told us that
he would drop the legal proceedings. That was our requirement
to work with him. We spent about 25 intense hours on
him. It finally came out that he had not dropped the
legal stuff.. he was lying the whole time. His intent
was only to use us to again, try to "convince his
wife that he had changed."
When he realized that he actually had to change in order
for us to help him, he exposed the fact that he was
not giving up the legal battle. His original intent
was to say yes to dropping it, to get us to work on
his behalf.. but he kept the option open in the back
of his mind to pick it back up - which he did.
Jamie is doing great. He had a down moment in the last
few days because Jan is "unloading" on him.
This is part of the process. It is very hard on Jan.
It is necessary for her to be healed though.. and for
them to ever have a chance of recovery. As she has been
unloading, Jamie slips his little justifications in
with his explanations.. this is driving Jan crazy...
she sees him changing... and then sees his old self
still come out.
We told Jamie, in advance, that Jan would HAVE to unload
on him if they were ever going to be restored. We told
him many times, that the good days were NOT when she
was smiling and giving him hugs and "thank-you's"
for things. The good days are when she unloads emotionally
about everything he has done to hurt her over the years.
Jamie has a hard time believing this. He sometimes crashes
emotionally, as a responder, instead of being able to
always pro-actively minister to her heart... she is
in much more pain than he is in. How many times can
it be said, "It is not all about you, husband!"
Jamie does well for a while.. and then he crashes..
but he is becoming more Christlike as time goes by.
I hope you can see yourself here, and let my corrections
to Jamie bring corrections to yourself.
Remember.. this is NOT the normal Jamie. This is Jamie
at his lowest ebb, emotionally. He has been doing great
for about 90 days. We told him in July that if he sticks
with this, he could expect a restoration around Christmas.
Jan said to him last week, "I am not going to consider
restoration until after Christmas." Are we good,
Jamie will do fine. The only reason I send this letter
out is to speak to the rest of the husbands... speak
to your lowest level emotions.. the quicker you guys
grow up and out of this stuff, become mature and Christlike,
the sooner your wives will open their hearts to you.
Joel and Kathy
Got another Hug tonight as we
were leaving church,
I asked her how she liked her bathroom
she commented on the fact that she was impressed that
I had gotten so
much accomplished in such a short amount of time,,AND,,,she
mentioned the fact that something she had mentioned
to me earlier in
the week about some rumblings going on at the church
pastor, that I didn't respond in the way I used to,
and said nothing
more than,,"that's just the way he is",,without
she was impressed with that too,,,
I said, I think there's something different about me,
said,,,YES,,there IS something different about you,,,
she hugged me,,right in the church parking lot,,and
From Jan, Jamie's wife:
Just have a minute, so I will
Thanks for the reassurance on
the timing. I will continue to listen to God. Last night
I asked him to stay because Greg wanted to spend the
night with him and couldn't because Jamie was on call
and didn't want to leave him at his house alone if he
got called in. I suggested it for Greg's sake and Jamie
was very appreciative, but it was way to much way too
I was in so much screaming pain
from it, that it woke me up and it even became physical
pain (head ache, back, joints, muscles). And when he
is in his 'good Jamie' personna, it is so easy to slide
right back into the ease and rhythm of being a family.
When God told me to leave Jamie,
He gave me 1 Samuel 15. I grieved all weekend and asked
Him to confirm and expose the other woman, as well as
several 'fleece' if things changed and I was to stay.
He also gave me 1 Kings 13 at the same time and I really
puzzled over what He was trying to tell me. Among other
things, I could not understand why a prophet would deceive
a fellow prophet and cause them to disobey God.
I wrote in my journal at the
time that as confusing as it was, I felt God was trying
to tell me that if I obey Him and things start to happen,
confirming what He said that I should obey all of it
and not get side tracked. I am still not sure of the
whole meaning of it....if it meant Jamie would again
behave as if he had changed and fool others as he has
in the past, and I was to just hold to the course of
getting/being out, or he would kill me emotionally and
Only God knows if the change
is for real and if Jamie will really stick to it this
time. I just know I want to hear God clearly and obey
Him. I know He put several women in my path that had
stories to tell of getting back together with their
adulterous husbands and having everything go great,
only have them to choose to again abandon their wives
10 years later-again for another woman.
Suzanne one of the woman even
had a deliverance ministry with her husband, that delivered
men from the bondage of adultery and sexual addiction.
Her husband was used greatly by the Lord, saw amazing
things-deliverances with people writhing on the floors
as the spirits left and he still went back into it.
Another (Dee) is a minister and her husband left her
for another woman when her children were young, she
took him back and then he left her again 10 years later
for another woman.
Yes, Jamie has really said "I am dedicating the
rest of my life to making up to you and the kids for
all of the pain that I caused you."-although not
always with the 'kid' part. He said it after I found
out about all the girls he was screwing around with
before we got married, after we got back together from
when I filed for divorce when I was pregnant for Doris,
and when he asked me to stay after I found out about
his 'on-line' girlfriend. (A lot of them that have been
on-going like 'Milly' I just found out about with this
He still claims to have just
been talking to all of them.
Have a great time in Africa if
I don't hear from you before then.
Sorry about the physical pain you are having.
It is Jamie's fault.. blame him! (Seriously!) Jamie
caused pain for you, the children and himself.
It will get easier for you though. As Jamie changes,
you will get healed up and the pain will be gone.
Your friends really need our book. It will bring them
much healing. My guess is that when the husbands came
back that they as a couple, fell into the "wife
submit and follow her husbands leadership" trap.
The wife had to submit to a husband who was a mess..
and because he did not have to submit equally to her,
he was able to generate another adultery.
My adultery was in 1991.. so, 15 years and counting...
I am totally accountable, transparent and available
to Kathy.. so if I ever were to get tempted, she would
sense it IMMEDIATELY!
When a couple is one flesh, a wife can sense the slightest
change. If I get overly attracted to a billboard picture..
she knows it!
Life is really really good... if a man "gets"
what I have.
I am going to take another guess about your friends.
My guess, is that THEY tried to win their husbands back..
and that the women tried to hold the marriage together
by offering the undeserved respect that Christian women
are told that they are supposed to offer to their husbands.
They were probably desperate to have the relationship
work out.. and therefore overlooked MANY warning signals
in the name of submission and respect.
The wrong teachings about marriage have hurt SO MANY
Christian women... my guess is that your friends were
suffering under these false teachings.. and so the husbands
ended up taking advantage of them.
This is why our book helps women like your friends get
healed so much. They allready know everything we say,
in their hearts.. but when they see it written down,
it brings TREMENDOUS healing.
Ask them to go to the website and request our 80 pages
of free excerpts.
By the way, your friends are not to blame.. their husbands
had bad character and never changed. The wives did what
everyone says a wife should do... they offered agape
love, respect etc. Women are amazing.. truly amazing.
We men mess our lives (and their lives) up so bad by
abusing the gift that God gives us in our wives.
Joel and Kathy
Jamie has written a few letters to other husbands that
we have asked him to write. They were helpful to the
other husbands, but, I do not think that we ever sent
you copies of any of them. Jamie was just as forthcoming
in those letters, but there was a difference.
The difference in this letter is obvious to us. The
difference is subtle, but huge. The other letters came
from a man who knew he had to die to himself, knew he
had to change, but it was all out of the head.
This letter has reached his heart. If your immediate
reaction is to say that Jamie is just claiming to believe
what he writes, we can forward you his earlier letters,
so you can sense the difference... but, I think, as
his wife, that you are going to sense a heart in what
Jamie has written... and you don't have to read his
other letters to see the difference.
This does not mean that you have to do anything different.
Keep that 90 day "buffer" in your mind. Let
Jamie walk this out for longer. Enjoy being pampered.
Joel and Kathy
This letter is from Jan, Jamie's wife:
Thanks guys, he blind cc'd me
on this too. He didn't tell me he had blind cc'd you
guys. And then turned right around, mentioning again
that he never instigated any of the affairs and that
he just wanted to point that out,,,,,wasn't trying to
control things, but thought I should know.... like that
makes a difference.
And he still mentions the fact
that he can prove to me the 'cult' stuff he found on
the internet, and then caveats it with he knows it is
his fault, he was looking for that. And when he tries
to remedy it, he just digs a bigger hole.
He doesn't realize that as long
as he feels it is worthy of mention, he still believes
them to be completely valid statements, clearly is not
accepting full responsibility and clearly feels that
the fact that he didn't instigate the affairs, and that
there was information about to the effect that Tommy
Tenney was a cult and that some how justifies it and
makes it less of a betrayal.
If I actually understood his
thinking, I would have to be insane too. Plus, he is
making sure to mention to others all the nice things
he is doing...ie, when I went to the hermitage he had
a nice bouquet sent to me at work-(trust me, I am not
the only one all this is confusing)...he made sure to
mention it to Sandra and have her listen to my cell
phone message 'thank you'. Not sure the motive...pats
on the back or encouragement that from my 'thank you',
does she think I really still love him???? I don't even
want to hazard a guess.
I am getting feedback from some
in the church think I am using him/leading him on now,
setting him up for pain, and need to decide what I am
going to do-give it a go or a clean break....don't think?
that was his intent, but became a side issue resulting.
My response to all this is that it is in God's hands
and it is up to Him and He will let me know.
Plus, Jamie has been on the fence for how many years
now and I have to decide right now and not lead him
on???? If so, the answer is a 'clean break' and now.
I have told him point blank, I have no intention of
coming back even if he does all these 'nice' things
for me, and even if he has changed I am not taking the
risk again, so he better expect that up front and know
that going in. I don't believe he has shared that information
along with the flower information.
Look, I don't want to be negative
but the guy has been a total pathological liar....so
good at it, I think he even believes his own lies, and
he repeats them enough so they become real to him. Just
because it comes out of his mouth, and even more than
once, and to more than one person, and even the same
story, does not make it the truth. He is perfectly capable
of doing that with a lie, and has done so for years.
Remember, he is a pro!!!
Plus, he is trying to figure
out who I got information from at his work about the
things he had been saying for the past year, and came
up with some poor girls name that he thinks I was talking
to her or a family member......so obviously he is still
talking to the women up there..... And I know he still
is not being completely honest-I just 'know' that....Jamie
is only completely honest when you have the total goods
and proof on him and he knows you have the total goods.
Now that I have been completely
negative....there is a difference. Something has started,
something is different....people that he creeped out
before, are sensing it, seeing a change where they don't
find him repulsive and they think he might actually
be starting to be real and are even enjoying him as
a person. He didn't give me his soliloquy today. And
when we prayed tonight, he was actually...truely...there
was actual real humility before God!!!!!!! Not an act,
but a real humbleness and gratitude and sincerity. Is
he safe? Not by a long shot. If it is of God, it will
It just makes me feel like I
am nuts having anything to do with him when he shows
the 'cracks' in the new veneer and the old insanity
I fought so, so, so hard to get free from. I don't want
anything to do with insanity again!
GTG. Haven't been able to get
through one whole sentence in this without interruption,
so hope it makes sense!
Glad to hear from you. We were on the road for ten days
with a seminar and some personal enjoyment.. we leave
for Africa on October 10 and will be gone for a month!
Be sure to talk to Jamie about this: He still wants
to blame his former mentors, he just didn't get the
right mentoring...trust me, they had no idea what he
was really doing, they were basing their advise on his
story, and there is no way they ever would have approved
the lies and the mistresses. or recognized that was
the real truth behind the stories they were hearing.
The part about them basing their advice on his story..
that is important for Jamie to own up to...
So now he is being this amazing, selfless, giving, considerate
man, who would 'die for us' and wants his family back
and is so sorry and so wrong,
We will let you know when we think that the internal
change has happened enough that he will actually maintain
being the new man in a restored family/marriage. Then
you can decided for yourself if the change is complete
I think if I told him to come home, all was forgiven
and ok, he would be excited at first and then flip out
and want out again....I sure would flip out at the thought
of us getting back together right now. He talks a good
talk, but will it hold up? I don't know.
We agree.. he is not quite ready yet.. keep doing what
you are doing. You are a master at giving him some signal
of your positive response.. and then backing up emotionally
so that he has to deal with his hurt feelings again.
Is someone coaching you on how to do this? You are doing
really well at it. As long as he has the deep feelings
of pain about himself, then he is still not ready. He
has to forget about his pain (since he caused it all)
and focus instead on the pain that he has caused you
and the kids. If you were warm and positive all the
time, he would have no opportunity to reveal to us that
he has still not grown past the "poor me"
pain. So, just keep doing what you are doing (apparently
you are just doing it naturally?) You are responding
enough to let him know he is on the right track.. and
then icing up just right so that he has to face his
pain again. When this happens, we get to say, "This
is not about you and your pain, Jamie. This is about
Jan's pain and your children's pain!"
How subtle is this? Last friday, your son asked him
if he would stay overnight. He decided to be the hero,
by not asking you.. he did not want to put you under
pressure etc. So, when he told me this, I said, "So,
Jamie, it sounds to me like you made a decision again
that was all about you and what you felt. Your son had
a need... but YOU did not want to risk the rejection
The way you would have handled this if it was going
to be about Jan and the kids would have been to have
asked Jan privately, but assure her that if she said
no, that you would not let the kids know that she said
no. Jan might have said no, but it would have been HER
choice. Instead, you took the choice out of her hands.
If she said no, you could have told the kids that you
are going to sleep at the other house...
All pressure would have been off of Jan, she would
not look like the bad guy... and chances are, she probably
would have said "Yes"... based on the fact
that you all had a nice evening together on Friday.
SO JAMIE, the decision YOU made, took control out of
Jan's hands, was not based on what was best for her
and the kids, but was really to protect YOU from getting
hurt if Jan was to reject the offer."
Jamie was like, "Man.. I blew it again, didn't
These are the subtleties we are working on with Jamie.
His whole life has been all about him.. and it has to
become all about you and the kids. He truly cannot help
it... and this is why he was the way that he was.. but
he is changing.. he is definitely changing.
Jamie has kind of pushing me to tell him if there is
any hope or not and all I can tell him is that if God
tells me to go back, I will. He thinks I am not in love
with him anymore and that is fine for him to think that.
It serves no purpose at this point for him to know otherwise.
You are exactly right. If you were to tell him, "Yes,
Jamie, do this for ninety more days and we can get re-married,
you would stop his growth. He has to have the un surety.
He is a recovering control freak.. and that is why he
keeps trying to "nail you down." It is very
uncomfortable for a control freak to not be in control..
but it is what he must live through to die to that part
I also get the feeling he is going to have to be willing
and suffer the pain for quite a bit longer for change
to be real and permanent. I really don't want to be
the object of that pain.
Sorry, don't mean to ramble, but figure you might need
points of reference.... short of it....something is
happening...will it go full blown...is he even capable
of it going full blown, I don't know. I don't get a
safe read at all right now, although we have had some
very good moments like we had before in the marriage.
We think that he will get a pass from us by the end
of September.. but then it will probably be December
before you give him your own clean bill of health..
don't give him any hints though if you are in agreement
with these thoughts. He has to learn to stand in faith.
He really has never developed his walk with the Lord.
You could almost consider that he was never really born
again. He might have had his ticket to heaven.. but
as far as having any real impact on him as a man, I
don't think that Jesus had much of a door into his heart.
This is forcing Jamie to develop his faith and a personal
relationship with the Lord.
Spirit filled friends who have stood fast by me from
the beginning of this have told me that this divorce
was for a purpose-as much as God hates divorce there
was no other way- and that purpose has not been accomplished
yet, and I am sensing that too...I am waiting...sometimes
patiently and just trusting God to work it out and let
me know as He has before with other things-other times
the pain is so excruciating,
We did not know that you realized this. We told Jamie
that you did hear God by going through with the divorce
because that is the only way that Jamie would ever change.
We also told Jamie that the purpose of the divorce was
not for divorce, but for restoration and permanent change.
I said that this would be a hard thing for you to believe...
that the purpose of the divorce was for change and restoration...
that you followed God's leading in filing the divorce...
and God may not have told you the "why" behind
it. It is good that you knew from the beginning what
the real purpose was.
Let me re-phrase that: God's purpose was two-fold: An
opportunity for Jamie to grow and change and for you
to be restored. On the other hand, if Jamie fails, then
you had to be free of him anyway.
We are excited about the changes Jamie is going through..
and you are reading him perfectly. The change is happening,
it is not complete yet, and it is not safe yet to let
The change won't be complete until after you two are
re-married.. but he does have to change enough for it
to be safe for you to get back together without the
risk of him going back to his old ways. Not there yet...
but will be.
We are sorry for your pain. We know this is excruciating
for you. You are going through this pain because Jamie
is changing... had he stayed the way he was, then you
could have gone on and lived a divorced life... with
a numb pain... and kids who would be hurt for life.
Instead you are going through an excruciating pain as
you are coming back to the reality that you and Jamie
are probably going to be re-married... this pain is
horrible... but temporary.. and your kids are going
to be much better off in the long run for getting back
Your pain is not your fault at all.. it is all Jamie's
fault. He is starting to understand this. "Jamie,
you inflicted your pain on yourself.. and you also inflicted
the pain that Jan is going through onto her. You made
choices that resulted in your pain. Jan and your kids
had no choice. They are victims. You have to quit looking
at your pain, which is selfish, because it is self inflicted...
and focus on bringing healing to your children and your
Paul Hegstrom said to his wife: "I am dedicating
the rest of my life to making up to you and the kids
for all of the pain that I caused you."
This has to be Jamie's attitude.
You are doing great.. keep it up!
Joel and Kathy
From Jan, Jamie's wife:
Hi guys! Wow, that was fast!
Where are you going in Africa? sorry it took me so long
to get back from your previous e-mail. I have precious
little time on this computer.
End of September!!!! Yikes!!! the thought scares me
to death and is just absolutely inconceivable to me.
And I must tell you, I have had the impression from
the first 'no going back', and that if I did, he would
'kill me' -not physically, but emotionally/spiritually.
I feel really conflicted having anything to do with
this treatment and him-like I am dis-obeying God and
just prolonging the agony instead of making a 'clean
surgery' of it. God is preparing me for something as
well. I know this was also to set me free to worship
Him unrestrained, and teach me to worship and hear Him
clearly whether in the worst of circumstances and the
best. If I am doing this thing right at all, it is only
because I have some how been able to get out of the
way enough to bumblingly let God handle it. And God
has put awesome, Spirit-filled people-mentors, prayer
warriors, prophets, in my path that hear Him clearly
when I have way too much static going on.
'Bout the mentors, I've told him over and over that
they had no idea what the real story was and that no
matter how mis-guided their methodology might have been,
they would never, ever, have approved the lies or the
"I am dedicating the rest of my life to making
up to you and the kids for all of the pain that I caused
you."-well he only says that every single time
he screws around - so that pretty much means absolutely
I still remain open to God's leading and will do as
Thank you for all your support and encouragement.
In His Love,
Would you like to find a place online where you can get help and marriage mentoring on an ongoing basis - for freeWould you like to be able to "look over the shoulder" and into the lives of other couples who are getting help for their marriages?
Check out Joel and Kathy's Marriage Forum at: www.JoelandKathy.com/boards/
Hi Again Jan!
Just to assure you and take away and stress about September..
the end of September is when we think Jamie will be
ready to be a great husband and not backslide.. however,
that does not mean that YOU will be ready... and you
do not need to feel any pressure about that.
Our feeling is that if Jamie continues on this track,
that you will feel safe by December. Until YOU feel
safe, loved, cherished and secure, then you do not need
to do anything! This is not about what you "should"
do.. don't let anyone put that on you. If Jamie continues
to change, God will put a "want to" in your
So, don't feel any pressure to open your heart to him
too soon. Just let God lead your heart. No one is pressuring
you to move quickly... and for right now, we have not
given you the "word" that we think it is safe
Did Jamie really say this before the divorce when he
messed up? "I am dedicating the rest of my life
to making up to you and the kids for all of the pain
that I caused you."
The proof in the pudding is if he does it though, anyway.
One of the things that men like Jamie have to learn
is that their wives are not obligated to believe their
words. They usually want their wives to "trust"
their words.. without any proof of their sincerity...
and of course, in the beginning, they are not sincere
at all. If they are sincere, they are not mature enough
to maintain the sincerity if they get back with their
wives too soon. Some wives let the husbands come back
too soon... and some wives harden their hearts and never
let a restoration happen. Neither of those are right.
You are doing great. Right now would be too soon.. and
you know that... and your emotions would not be ready
for a restoration yet anyway... yet you are open to
God bringing healing to you if Jamie stays the course
and wins your trust.
We are going to Johannesburg, Pretoria and Sosanguve.
Do you know why you felt that Jamie could kill you emotionally
and mentally? Because a husband can do that if they
are a lousy husband. Headship has nothing to do with
authority as many believe and teach.. it has to do with
being a source of life (or death) to a wife. We teach
on this in our DVD seminar. You might watch it sometime.
I am sure Jamie has a copy of the DVD set.. it will
clarify a LOT of things to you.
Joel and Kathy
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